|
Matt
Johnson
Johnny Marr
IN CONVERSATION . . .
PART 3.
J.
Now back to Heartland, what you're doing in that song is mourning
the decay of England.
M: I suppose in a way that song was ahead of its
time because the Americanisation of Britain seems to have
accelerated rapidly since then. You see and read about
it commented on more and more, just about how much our little
island is really losing or has lost.
J: Like Starbucks and all the rest of these dominant
generic multinationals.
M: Even though I’ve lived outside of England for
a long time, I come back and it saddens me, all this xenophobic
narrow minded hatred toward Europe and this sycophantic obsession
with Washington. I think there's a huge red herring in the
public debate about Europe and all of this nonsense about
handing over too much power to Brussels. Everyone in the UK
seems to be staring in the wrong direction. Look West not
East. It’s Washington that's really been running Britain’s
foreign policy. It has been more or less since the end of
the second world war. I’m convinced some kind of deal
was done then. It just doesn’t seem to make any sense
why Britain has to get dragged around the globe in their wake
every time there’s a war that has nothing to do with
the UK and everything to do with the US’s economic self
interest. I suppose they’ll start modifying all of their
air bases in Britain soon for Bush’s moronic Star Wars
project. And it won’t matter a jot what the British public
think about it. No matter what party we have in government
whenever Washington says jump London replies how high. What
is that really all about? I really think the British should
be more like the French. They’ve put up a strong defensive
resistance for their culture for years. But the sad truth
is that we’re now on the fast track to a global monoculture.
J: But London's very important to you isn't it?
Well it was very important to you. Not just because
it’s your roots but also there’s a certain aesthetic
I always felt your songwriting contained relating to the place.
It doesn't surprise me that the releases we are doing this
interview for are largely about London and New York. The Kink’s
Ray Davies is a guy who's often cited as someone who captured
the feeling of London with Waterloo Sunset, but Heartland
does it too. Do you have a romantic idea about London?.
M: Yeah, I definitely do, but it’s just that I
always felt a little bit uncomfortable in my home town for
some reason. I love it and loathe it ... (laughs)
J: Did you when you were younger though?
M: The first time I noticed it was when I was
a teenager, but going back to London recently I began to notice
how much its changed even since then. Although exciting in
many ways it’s also become more aggressive, uptight and
grasping. More congested and run down. But even so I've always
had a romantic idea of London and how I’d like
it to be. But it never quite is. I suppose what really formed
a lot of my feelings about it was the particular part of East
London that my family and relatives lived. That formed a big
part of my childhood memory. Playing on old bomb sites
from the Second World War. It’s funny to think about
now but there really were old bomb sites until the early 70’s.
All that stuff informs you in ways you're not conscious of,
and it just comes out in the words and music. Particularly
a song like Heartland, all the references to old iron bridges,
Victorian parks, Saturday morning cinemas. I just loved those
elements of Britain, the decayed splendour and the old seaside
towns in winter going to seed. Or the old docks where my dad
used to work, before they regenerated it that is. And also
breaking into old buildings as a kid, not to steal anything
but I just loved the ...
J: Excitement?
M: Yeah, breaking into places that were decayed,
where there'd once been a lot of life around and you could
feel the ghosts in the air. As opposed to the odorless sterility
of modern day reality. The last building I broke into was
just a couple of years back actually. It’s strange really,
on the one hand I’m a very, very restless person who’s
constantly moving around the world and living in different
countries, trying to escape perhaps? yet at the same point
I’m clinging on to elements of my past, resisting change
and mourning loss.
J: Well that comes out in Heartland. You have
this feeling of the archaic decay of London in that song.
You’re mourning the decayed splendour and the piss stinking
junkies yet you don't want it to change. It’s a paradox.
M: What I didn't like was the country seemingly
just giving up its identity. That's what’s really disturbing,
becoming more and more Americanised and confused about it’s
role both in the world and at home. Trying to be something
it’s just not. The endless importing of bad American
stuff not the good stuff. But England was always a mongrel
country anyway and change and evolution is proof of life so
ultimately maybe it isn’t such a bad thing.
J: Yeah, it’s funny that about you because
you were really strongly attracted to certain American images
as well. I think it’s a product of being a 60’s
kid who came of age in the 70’s really. I’m exactly
the same way, and it comes out of me in the music. You like
The Empire State Building a lot don’t you?
M: Yeah I do actually. I’ve always
loved that building. Probably from seeing King Kong perched
on it as a kid at the Saturday morning cinema. Even now I’ll
take a walk up there on a clear and sunny Sunday morning and
stop and stare up at it for ages. Something very symbolic
about it, obviously for the city as it was built during the
depression and came to represent hope for the people there,
but it’s always been symbolic to me as well, I look up
at it to remind myself why I left Britain in the first place.
J: But at the same time, you really love old
Ealing comedies, Tommy Cooper and Tony Hancock as well don’t
you?
M: Yeah I do. I always liked the fact Britain
and America were two distinct cultures that fed into each
other but retained their unique identities. “Two great
nations separated by a common language” as Churchill
once said. But it does cut both ways. I know many Americans
who are dismayed when they travel to the other side of the
world to see Merry Olde England and are confronted with the
golden arches of McDonalds and Starbuck & Nobles and Barnes
& Gap. They spent thousands of dollars and flew thousands
of miles and didn’t even leave home! (laughs) so many
of them aren’t too happy about it either.
J: Did you think, as a 70’s kid? that it
somehow melded into one culture then? I wonder about that
sometimes.
M: Well because so much of our TV was really
American, in our minds it did become melded, but it’s
always disturbed me that for as long as I can remember Britain
has completely rolled over to US foreign policy without a
peep. And now the real sad joke is where certain politicians
and newspapers are screaming blue murder about Brussels sneakily
removing our beloved sovereignty where in reality this country
really doesn’t make a move on the world stage without
Washington’s say so. I just cannot understand why no
one makes more of an issue out of this. Maybe it’s the
shared language and all the Hollywood films or something that
Britain is really starting to believe it is actually American.
It’s also quite interesting to note how Hollywood celebrities
have usurped our Royalty in popularity, and do you honestly
think that if the IRA had blown up 5,000 British citizens
that President Bush would be scuttling around the world holding
3 minute silences and rattling his sabre?
J: Do you feel let down by the people in this country?
M: Let down? God no, I live much of the time in New York
for God’s sake, how can I possibly feel let down. I’m
the one who left Britain and If I dislike American culture
so much people are entitled to ask why I spend so much time
there. But the answer is that it’s not a case of disliking
American culture so much as grieving over the loss of everyone
else’s culture. Maybe we all just have to accept that
it’s what people want. American culture has always been
more glamorous than our own. You can’t force people
to buy Levis Jeans or hamburgers. They wouldn’t buy them
if they didn’t like them, so maybe what we’re witnessing
on a massive scale, with this inexorable shift to a global
monoculture is just cultural evolution and the survival of
the fittest, and maybe it’s really just the most natural
thing in the world. I don’t happen to really think that
but it’s worth bearing in mind.
J: There was a quote of yours in the music
press in the mid 80’s, it must have been around the time
of Heartland, that went something along the lines of "I
cant remember a time when I didn’t have a coke in the
fridge and a pack of Wrigleys spearmint gum in my Levis back
pocket."
M: Yeah, that is true. I can’t really remember
a time when we were a truly distinct country so I’m nostalgic
for something I never really knew. But all over the world
people are complaining about the same thing. The French are
obviously resisting the threat to their culture more than
the British but I just think its unhealthy for the world. I
love diversity. Cultural diversity and bio-diversity
and I just think we’re losing too much. Britain does
have an incredible history of creativity and individuality
in many fields. There’s a famous quote, I’ve forgotten
who by, that every time an old person dies it’s like
a library burning down. But what about entire languages and
cultures? All of these lost worlds of our children’s
future. And who’s to blame? I suppose we all are. Most
of us travel around the world pollinating western culture.
We’re all part of the problem and it’s a huge dilemma.
But anyway, as far as Heartland as a song goes, I was proud
of it. The only problem was that I was trying to be too
smart with the structure by putting the ‘chorus’
just as the outro. The 51st state refrain was anthemic
and the whole point of the songs and so what did I do? Stick
it right on the bloody end. Would have been a much bigger
hit if I hadn’t made that error.
J: Yeah, but you would have had to take the word
piss out of it then, though. You wouldn't have done that would
you?
M: No, and I did have a bit of an argument about
that, because I think in the context of the song that it’s
a really descriptive term and people when they heard that
line would say "Yeah, that's exactly what they’re
like", you know, you go pick your car up in some dingy
car park or shopping precinct and its just this reek of stale
urine everywhere. It’s part of the atmosphere, part of
the song. But I still wish in some ways that I’d
been cuter with the structure and had 51st state in at the
first chorus because everybody thought the song was called
that anyway. But I always did make things hard for myself. I
always seem to make all the wrong decisions for all the right
reasons (laughs)
J: I think I’ve sort of hammered this idea,
but I really wanted to get it across about the way you are
always working with reference to the environment that you’re
in. And the environment you were in started to change didn’t
it, when you started to make the Infected album? Things started
to teeter towards the US or more specifically New York. Stuff
like The Mercy Beat and also the themes that you start to
take on. You start to become a little more external, particularly
in Sweet Bird Of Truth.
M: It was a strange song that one because I was
getting more interested in religion and more specifically
religious hypocrisy. The rise of Islamic fundamentalism
I found really fascinating and terrifying at the same time.
I still do. I wrote that song shortly before the air attack
on Libya, when Ronald Reagan tried to assassinate Gaddafi.
It’s written from the point of view of a mercenary US
fighter pilot who’s fighting a holy war yet has no real
belief in God himself until the point of his own death.
J: So, how had your life changed after Soul Mining?
M: Well for a start I moved out of the little
bedsit in Highbury and moved into my own flat with my girlfriend.
J: Ah, end of an era (laughs)
M: It was the end of an era, although my flat
mates were happy to see me go I’m sure (laughs). I
suppose there was an element of ... signing a record deal
and a certain amount of material comfort that comes with that,
also at that age a certain amount of decadence I guess. You
end up drinking more than you should and your internal state
changes. You see often it can take a songwriter years and
years to make their first album and now I was onto my, what
was it? including unreleased albums, about my fifth I suppose.
So you’ve got to take time to fill up on experiences
again. Naturally one’s focus changes, because you’re
moving away from childhood and adolescence and all the stuff
that led up to those tricky years, the early 20’s. So
I just became more and more interested in politics and religious
affairs. Trying to look outside of my own tiny orbit. Then
again, a song like Out Of the Blue ...
J: Starts to become overtly sexual. The content
in your songs becomes ... explicit.
M: Yeah, particularly ‘Out Of The Blue and
Into The Fire’ ... one of the most sexually explicit
songs I‘ve ever written.
J: The sound starts getting more sexual too and
just the whole atmosphere and feeling of it. Infected really
blew everybody away when it came out because no-one had ever
heard a sound like it before. It was a very modern sound,
but still it had your influences, maybe harking back to the
Glitter Band even. The drums are very loud and it’s
a very bombastic sounding record. It rocks, it really
rocks as a record. The guitars are very aggressive, but yet
you’ve got things like the trumpet solo from Infected.
You know I’m a bit of a rock train spotter and I cannot
remember a trumpet solo like that in a pop record. So what
were you really going for with Infected when you started to
get the idea together as a concept?
M: I don't think it started out as an overall
concept, I was just concentrating on each song, each little
vignette. Interestingly Heartland and Out Of The Blue were
going to be produced by Tom Waits. I spent a week hanging
out with him in New York checking out studios and doing some
basic pre-production work but in the end, different problems
happened. I think his wife just had a baby, he’d just
fired a manager, he was working on his Rain Dogs album and
taking acting classes for a film he was working on. Something
had to give and unfortunately it was my project. But I got
to meet Robert Frank and get thrashed numerous times at pool
by Tom Waits and he was also very encouraging to me and said
"Look, your demos are really explicit, why not have a
go at producing this yourself". It would have been
a different sounding album but an interesting project though
because I was hoping to do some tracks not only with him but
also with Holger Czukay and Brian Eno. That was the original
plan. The person who came back very enthusiastic was
Tom Waits and so after that fell through I decided to co-produce
the album and I chose Roli Mosimann, the ex-Swan’s drummer,
for his first proper production gig, and also Warne Livesey.
Both were introduced to me by my close friend Jim Thirlwell
and both did a fine job. But anyway, I was only about 24 at
the time I wrote it and I really wanted to write something
extremely political. I was feeling really pissed off and dismayed
by the Thatcher era. It was starting to grip hard and I was
feeling pretty affected by all that. And her relationship
with Ronald Reagan just drove me mad. The increasing demonisation
of the Islamic fundamentalists was also another interesting
ingredient thrown into the mix. This new conflict between
Christianity and Islam seemed to send a shiver down the collective
spine of the age. It was like a new holy war was starting. Also
the sexual element is in there too of course and I suppose
I was drinking a lot, mainly vodka, and probably doing other
stuff I shouldn’t be doing. There was a certain amount
of aggression coming out. A lot of residual anger that I’ve
carried within my bones since childhood. I’m a pretty
angry person in many ways. Have been pretty much all my life
I suppose. It accounts for a lot of the sarcastic, nasty humour
that I laid on people in the past. I’ve tried very hard
to remove it as I’ve got older of course but I think
anger has many masks and can manifest itself as depression
or sarcasm or violence or boredom and I was just try trying
to focus this energy in a creative way. I was trying to figure
out what I was really angry about, and a convenient target
for my anger was someone like Margaret Thatcher of course,
and more generally what was happening to my country.
J: You were very politically concerned for someone
who had just put out a successful, influential first album
yet who was still only 24. Did that political awareness come
from your father?
M: Probably. He was pretty left wing when he
was a young man, he was a docker before becoming a publican
and he was very involved with the Dockers Trade Union, who
were extremely left wing. I suppose you can’t help being
affected by your parents. We didn’t sit around getting
lectured about politics or anything like that, but being a
kid you just get affected by the points of view of your parents.
J: Do you think you had a sense of injustice?
Because Infected is the
first time really when injustice starts to play a big part
in your lyrics.
M: There’s a sense of that I suppose. A sense
of powerlessness and of trying to use whatever tiny influence
I had to try to get a point of view across. And as I say,
just marshall that internal anger into something positive.
To try saying or doing something positive.
J: What about the sound of it though, because
I know you were working with Roli and Warne. With all due
respect to because I’ve worked with Roli and Warne and
I know how great they are, and Bruce Lampcov later on too,
but ultimately you very much direct the way the records
sound, in collaboration with other people. It really doesn’t
sound like anything or anyone that went before it. There
were no reference points. It wasn’t like the listener
could sit there and say “Oh that’s a bit Beatley”
or “That’s a bit the Stooges.”
M: There was one song that was influenced by
someone and that was The Mercy Beat. I would say that was
quite influenced by Jim Thirlwell (Foetus), particularly a
lot of the imagery I was using. He and I were hanging out
together a lot and he was playing me a lot of stuff.
That song was probably the only one influenced by someone
else. But the album as a whole? Well again, the instrumentation
is very distinct from song to song. No two songs have the
same instrumentation. Out Of The Blue for instance sounds
very different to Heartland or to Twilight Of A Champion.
I think its a case of making each song almost like a short
film in a way. Not only the lyrical imagery, there was
a distinct thread going through all the lyrical imagery, but
the instrumentation was very distinct too, and that's one
of the joys of having a very fluid line up. That you’re
not going to piss anybody off if you say “Well, I’m
afraid you're not playing on this song Bert, there’s
just going to be a brass section, a string section or a piano
player.” So it was really making full use of that
fluid line up and pushing each song as far as I possibly could
in a different direction.
J: I know its really a hackneyed term to use nowadays
but you were really using the studio as your instrument weren’t
you.
M: I was just trying to push the studio until
the pips squeaked (laughs) It’s funny putting that album
on now, because obviously music has changed so much in the
last 15 years, particularly the heavy rap and hippo bands
that came along, like Public Enemy, who were just really powerful
and took things to another level. But at the time it
came out Infected was a very powerful record compared to what
was around it. You turn it on now and it sounds, not gentle
but ... not quite as brutal as it once did. Times change but
as I’ve said before you really have to judge things in
the context of their time.
J: So, 'Infected' as a record, and obviously
the long form video which was a first and which we'll get
on to in a minute .... 'Infected' the whole album and video
are a really intense record and an intense video, so presumably
your life was really intense at that time. What was going
on there? What were you doing? You were in New York
a lot weren't you?
M: I was in New York, usually visiting a couple
of times a year at
that point, but I also filmed quite a lot of Infected in New
York.
J: The album was obviously made before you started
filming? Were you getting out of it a lot during the album
and the filming?
M: Yeah, 3 or 4 different directors were involved
in it. We filmed at least 3 tracks in New York.
'Out Of The Blue', which was directed by Tim (Pope) is my
favourite one. The fact that it was shot on 35mm helped. Some
of the others were shot on 16mm or even video for some parts.
But suddenly seeing this stuff on 35mm, and the
colours were beautiful, all filmed around Harlem at night
in the rain and I just thought “This is fantastic, it
looks just like the song!” So I love some of those videos,
and it was a wonderful time working with my long time friend
Tim Pope. And then of course we upped tents and headed down
to South America to do the rest. Which was a fantastic experience.
And so the idea of just touring the film came about. I wouldn’t
play any shows I’d just tour the film. So I just travelled
around the world, mainly alone, occasionally with Stevo or
a record company representative. I travelled across America,
Australasia and Europe for a year. Just renting out
cinemas and sitting there with an audience - full of media
people and also fans and that was quite lovely as I’d
be sat on a little throne like chair and table in the corner
with people coming up to me telling me how talented I was
and buying me drinks all night long. Very agreeable indeed.
I wouldn’t mind doing that again. Didn’t have to
sing or anything. The after show party without the show. It
was fantastic.
J: What I'm getting at here Matt is that you
were obviously drinking a lot and you were taking quite
a few drugs as well weren't you? From knowing you, what strikes
me is that you're not someone who gets out of it and then
sits on their backside goofing out. You were very purposeful
about your debauchery......
M: Yeah (laughs) it wasn't really hedonistic.....
J: You were always on a bit of a mission.....
M: The only reason I did any drugs was honestly
to help with writing the songs. Just to give me ... an edge
.. a different perspective. Just trying some different things
out. You know, sitting up through the night fuelled
by speed and vodka Martinis or whatever whilst sat in front
of my overheated little Portastudio and furiously scribbling
lyrics. It really was all work related. When we did
the 'Infected' videos, you can imagine obviously in Peru and
Bolivia there was a certain amount of drugs and alcohol around,
and it was really adding to the visual excitement to it I
felt. By that I mean that it helped loosen me up in front
of the cameras. Me being a bit shy. Suddenly I’m filming
eight videos and I wasn't giggling at the time. So I had to
... loosen up. A large part of that drinking and stuff, was
like a lot of people feel. You know when you’re just
not feeling comfortable in your own skin? So, if you're going
on these promotional tours and your doing a dozen or more
interviews a day, not only is it a bit boring sometimes but
also you can feel a bit uncomfortable, well I did then, not
so much anymore. And also with the filming, just doing these
videos... particularly those kind of videos, when I'm in brothels
writhing around with prostitutes and then being tied on to
the top of boats, or wrestling with snakes and sticking my
head in a fridge full of cockroaches. And though those images
really kind of summed up my internal state of mind ... with
me not being an actor ... well ... let’s just say that
I self medicated in order to make things a bit more comfortable
for myself. I've never wanted to act and I really started
to have a bit of a problem with videos. Which is why the videos
after that period I just really wanted to make more
performance based. The idea of the musician being an actor
and appearing in narrative scenes? Well, I did a certain amount
of that but I never really felt comfortable, which is why
I got out of it a lot of the time.
J: Are you also someone, probably more so at
that time, who was into
exploring different states of mind?
M: Yeah, but that really came into it’s
own with 'Mind Bomb' but 'Infected' was .....
J: More of a confidence thing?
M: Yeah, well like I said there's a lot of anger in
there too. Remember that time John Lydon came over to
our hotel in Australia to have a drink with us? He said "Infected
is the most spiteful album I've ever heard." Which was
a massive compliment coming from him (laughs) It was this
massive amount of anger, and like I said, just not being comfortable
in my own skin and all the stuff that was going on in Britain
at the time, I just felt angry about. There was a lot
of sexual undertones and overtones and the drugs of choice
I suppose were vodka and speed and cocaine. I was a lot younger
then, 23, 24, 25. Life had changed a lot for me and I was
also trying to deal with all these residual feelings that
are dragged forward from childhood, trying to rationalise
them. I think as you get older you can figure out where it's
coming from or at least train yourself to accept who you are
more.
J: You were quite fearless though weren't you,
at that time?
M: I don’t know, maybe. Much more fearless
than I am now....
J: You’re fearless in some of the situations
you put yourself in in the videos.
M: I used to like doing all my own stunts.
There was that particular one, the Infected one, where I was
tied into the metal caged chair we had constructed on top
of the old boat on the Amazon river. We had these local guys
holding it and they were rushing me towards the edge of the
boat for a particular shot. I was strapped in and couldn’t
move a muscle and they’re heading straight for the bloody
edge. The surface was wet and slippery too. I thought, 'That’s
all I bloody need. One of them to slip.” and it was quite
high, the drop was about 40 ft or something and I couldn't
even put my hands up to save myself. I would have fallen straight
down onto these wooden spikes. So there was a lot of fearlessness
or just plain stupidity, but I just really liked the authenticity
of those films. Also, again, you have to place things in context
of their time. Do you remember most videos at that point?
I loathed them. And to be quite honest the whole concept of
videos anyway ... I've really ... I think video has got a
lot to answer for and MTV particularly, for destroying a lot
of the mystique and intimacy of music and negatively affecting
the relationship between an audience and a band. When we grew
up you'd just see the odd photograph of the band, you'd have
the album and the liner notes. A lot of it was in your imagination,
you'd sit in your room and develop your own visual soundtrack
to them, wait for them to come round on tour. Bands and Music
and videos are way, way, way too overexposed for all our own
good now.
J: I really don't think 'Infected' the video
fell into that trap you're describing. I know in the UK it
got shown on Channel 4 twice and it was a really big deal
over here. And I think that even though there was a lot of
- for want of a better term -'hip' people who would seek out
music, all were very aware of you from 'Soul Mining'. But
I think that 'Infected' was the first time that the mainstream
had got an idea of you and your image really. Do you think
it's likely that you became known as the guy who was strapped
to a chair going down a river? Or the guy with a gun in his
mouth? They're very strong images and very unusual images
at that time. Also you weren't pushing yourself as some sort
of pretty boy songwriter so it was really unusual. How do
you feel about those images now? Do you feel fine about
it? That it was what it was? Because it kind of stuck with
you a long time didn't it? People got this impression of intensity
...
M: You become crystallised in time and you've
got something to live up to, or down to, when maybe it's just
a phase of life you’re going through. We all go
through periods where we feel that type of intensity, but
then you grow up and I don't like the word 'mellow' because
I really don’t feel like that at all, but you just change
direction. So there's a certain expectation from people, be
it members of your own audience or critics. Either way they
assume they've got you pinned down and that's who they want
you to be all the time. Curled up tight in a little labelled
box under the stairs.
J: At the time were you aware of how your image was
being perceived?
M: I don’t know. I felt a lot of aggression
towards various things and that’s really what I wanted
to get across and this film was a bit of a shock for many
people when it came out, but then you really have to compare
it to what else was out there at the time. Within a 4 month
period Channel 4 showed the entire film twice, an hour long
film! Which was a very unusual thing to happen really
and consequently a lot of people saw it. I was very proud
of it because it was quite unique. No one had done anything
quite like it before or since. Everyone involved did a tremendous
job. And if I look back, I think it was pretty authentic.
I was just portraying the kind of life I was living but then
the idea of having to live up to those kind of images, that
phase of my life and being that kind of person permanently?
Well, that’s an entirely different matter. That was then
and this is now.
J: So how long do you think that period lasted, from
starting the songs on Infected to the period of it ...
M: Probably about 3 years. Then I had a relationship
break up because I’d turned into a pretty unpleasant
person. The initial flush of success will do that to most
people really. That mixed in with some alcohol. I think celebrity
is a toxin. Even minor celebrity. More often than not it changes
people for the worse. It’s an unnatural state of affairs
and it turns people unpleasant.
J: You were pretty young to take on a project
that big though weren’t
you? How old were you? 24? 25?
M: 23 when I started writing it and my 25th birthday
was in Peru just after we’d finished filming.
J: Do you feel that you got some stuff out of
your system during that album?
M: Yeah, I think most experiences get something out
of one’s system. It was a good, strong record,
I really did the best I could at the time and then moved on.
J: It was really successful Infected wasn’t
it. Platinum?
M: Yes.
J: Did you feel any pressure as that period was
winding down to be more successful or to build on your success
because your trajectory would start to drop?
M: No, I never really felt that. But that mentality
was an ally and an enemy in terms of me being too relaxed,
self confident and taking far too long between projects. I
think it’s ultimately a good thing because each project
was well thought out and very distinct from the previous one
but instead of going straight back in to the studio and making
Infected mk2, which probably would have been absolutely massive
commercially, I just took a long time to wind down and think
of a fresh direction. That involved really cleaning out my
system. Like I said, I’d had a relationship break up
and then we got back together and that sort of sobered me
up in terms of where I wanted to go with my life. And my residual
interest in religion and spiritual matters was rekindled and
I then started writing Mind Bomb, which was an interesting
record to write and record. I spent a lot of time trying
different things for inspiration. Fasting, living on organic
grapes and distilled water for about a month, drinking magic
mushroom tea, spending a lot of time alone and meditating
constantly, which I really, really love. It’s like a
hot foaming bubble bath for the soul. Takes you back to the
source. So pretty whacked out in some ways but I got into
some very interesting states of mind that’s for sure.
J: Yeah. Well it’s a very different way
of living to the Infected period. And the other thing
was that you decided at that time, was you decided to change
the way your business set up was and you pretty much managed
yourself for a while didn’t you?
M: Well by the end of Infected the relationship
with Stevo was pretty much on it’s knees. The greatest
thing he’d ever done for me as a manager was making sure
the Infected film got made. It would just never have happened
without him but things had been problematic for a while and
it just went from bad to worse to ridiculous. Although I was
very fond of him, I felt that I just couldn't carry
on like that.
J: Just burnt each other out.
M: Sadly it had just become a very negative situation.
Also the idea of going on the road or playing shows again,
happened I think in Australia when I was showing the Infected
film down there. I bumped into Billy Bragg, old mate
of yours, and we hung out together and he persuaded me to
do some Red Wedge shows. I did them as a two piece with Zeke
Manyika. We played 2 or 3 shows supporting the Labour Party.
Even got to meet Ken Livingston and Neil Kinnock.
J: Yeah, I did some of those shows.
M: Yeah, you did some too. I really enjoyed them and
the thought of going on the road became quite attractive.
The idea of mentally moving away from that Infected period
and just trying to change my lifestyle.
J: Did you feel wiped out after Infected?
M: Yeah, bloody exhausted because it’s ... you
know ...it was a promotional tour for a year which is doing
loads of interviews pretty much every day. It was just exhausting.
I was wiped out. Remember the entire project from the
first writing sessions to the final promotional sessions was
a 3 year period. Just working constantly on that.
End of part 3
Onto
part four >
Transcribed
by Stella Macpherson.
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